It makes perfect sense to me that the 16 to 18 year olds, facing a much longer future than me, have a voice regarding that future. Plenty of my cohort deserve to be disqualified, for, among other things, their refusal to take climate change seriously.
Thanks for (once again) marshalling my half-baked reckons, adding a dose of depth, and delivering a coherent rational for supporting a reduction.
That last point is spot on - if the adults in Parliament wish to demonstrate how to best engage in democracy, they must discuss the proposal on its merits - in the best interests of all New Zealanders - rather than follow a tribal line dictated by self-interest.
Agree with all you say David especially in regards to the fact that many of those allowed to vote currently certainly don't show they have the nous to do so sensibly or with any thought. My generation has not left the world a better place for these young people and we have voted many times and could have made a difference.
As someone who had the right to vote taken away for a spell (Ecan) I remember how bloody frustrating and disempowering it felt in a town where nature, politicians and bureaucracy had already disempowered us. Can only imagine how young people feel in today’s world of climate change, social and political challenges which really impact on them, now and in the future.
Why don't we also put compulsory voting on the table? Lived in Oz for 15+ years and although being a "tax and rate paying kiwi but not entitled to vote" resident I'm of the view that the compulsion generated voters. It created a culture of "it's a bloody pain, but we need to do it". If that is combined with our MMP system and sixteen plus voting (including local body elections) we would be on the way to having democratic elections. Then we can get serious about corrupt election finance issues!
For me 16 was 1982. I think in post Springbok Tour, heading into Muldoon's Wage/Price Freeze, Faulklands War kicking off, NZ I had an opinion worthy of a vote.
Where is the harm? What are people frightened of? After all the National Party selected a 17 year old who couldn't vote as their candidate in Palmy last election. PS if you haven't listened to the Kim Hill interview with Goldsmith please do. Kim will make you smile. Goldsmith ; all I can say. is tragic.
Or a better question - would boot camp help develop the skills needed to engage meaningfully in a democracy, to analyze the issues of the day & to vote based on that analysis. What would boot camp teach about voting?
What about discounting the vote the older we get. Start with a vote that's "worth" 100% at age 16 and then take away 1% for every year we age? More fairly reflects the time we'll spend wearing the consequences. And let's have some binding referendums while we're at it. Just sayin'...
I’d love you to read Nevil Shute’s novel about this. It may be ‘In the Wet’, I can’t recall it’s such a long time since I read it. Basically Australians in this book had several votes depending on whether you were educated, working, etc. Not something I’d agree with at all. Your suggestion would mean I’d have less say and I’m a supporter of young people and their future - where would that leave me - frustrated!.
Old Terry McCombs headmastver and former Labour Party Cab Minister and Hi Commissioner to London gave political studies a push in the senior classes at Cashmere. Focused on US Federal system tho not NZ. If didn’t do me or any of the other pupils any harm
It makes perfect sense to me that the 16 to 18 year olds, facing a much longer future than me, have a voice regarding that future. Plenty of my cohort deserve to be disqualified, for, among other things, their refusal to take climate change seriously.
Thanks for (once again) marshalling my half-baked reckons, adding a dose of depth, and delivering a coherent rational for supporting a reduction.
That last point is spot on - if the adults in Parliament wish to demonstrate how to best engage in democracy, they must discuss the proposal on its merits - in the best interests of all New Zealanders - rather than follow a tribal line dictated by self-interest.
Agree with all you say David especially in regards to the fact that many of those allowed to vote currently certainly don't show they have the nous to do so sensibly or with any thought. My generation has not left the world a better place for these young people and we have voted many times and could have made a difference.
As someone who had the right to vote taken away for a spell (Ecan) I remember how bloody frustrating and disempowering it felt in a town where nature, politicians and bureaucracy had already disempowered us. Can only imagine how young people feel in today’s world of climate change, social and political challenges which really impact on them, now and in the future.
Why don't we also put compulsory voting on the table? Lived in Oz for 15+ years and although being a "tax and rate paying kiwi but not entitled to vote" resident I'm of the view that the compulsion generated voters. It created a culture of "it's a bloody pain, but we need to do it". If that is combined with our MMP system and sixteen plus voting (including local body elections) we would be on the way to having democratic elections. Then we can get serious about corrupt election finance issues!
For me 16 was 1982. I think in post Springbok Tour, heading into Muldoon's Wage/Price Freeze, Faulklands War kicking off, NZ I had an opinion worthy of a vote.
Hear bloody hear!
Where is the harm? What are people frightened of? After all the National Party selected a 17 year old who couldn't vote as their candidate in Palmy last election. PS if you haven't listened to the Kim Hill interview with Goldsmith please do. Kim will make you smile. Goldsmith ; all I can say. is tragic.
Would they be able to vote from boot camp?
Or a better question - would boot camp help develop the skills needed to engage meaningfully in a democracy, to analyze the issues of the day & to vote based on that analysis. What would boot camp teach about voting?
What about discounting the vote the older we get. Start with a vote that's "worth" 100% at age 16 and then take away 1% for every year we age? More fairly reflects the time we'll spend wearing the consequences. And let's have some binding referendums while we're at it. Just sayin'...
I’d love you to read Nevil Shute’s novel about this. It may be ‘In the Wet’, I can’t recall it’s such a long time since I read it. Basically Australians in this book had several votes depending on whether you were educated, working, etc. Not something I’d agree with at all. Your suggestion would mean I’d have less say and I’m a supporter of young people and their future - where would that leave me - frustrated!.
Absolutely agree David!
Hard AGREE
Old Terry McCombs headmastver and former Labour Party Cab Minister and Hi Commissioner to London gave political studies a push in the senior classes at Cashmere. Focused on US Federal system tho not NZ. If didn’t do me or any of the other pupils any harm
Love this David. Thank you!